ForumTouchy Subjects ► French Government Response to Islamic Extremism
France cracks down on 76 mosques suspected of 'separatism'

Anyone else concerned about this?
Not overly. France has seen a lot of really horrific extremist violence in the last ten years and it's kind of bizarre to say you can't remove sources of extremist thinking.
There have to be clearly outlined objectives somewhere. What constitutes an extremist mosque in the eyes of the French gov?
Islamist terrorism is an ongoing concern in France. Recently they've had two separate beheadings. In October a teacher was beheaded, then two weeks later three Christians were stabbed to death in church, with one beheaded (or partially beheaded, reports differ). That makes nine attacks in France just in 2020.

Macron's hands are tied. He's got the election to think about. If he's seen as ignoring these attacks, Marine Le Pen could win. On the other hand, coming down hard on mosques will probably backfire, further radicalise disaffected Muslims, and motivate even more attacks - which will drive voters to Le Pen anyway.

So the left is criticising him for shifting to Le Pen's platform, but if the alternative is losing to the actual Le Pen, what choice has he got. Recent opinion polls show her breathing down his neck. And her whole platform for years has been cracking down on Islamists, so I imagine she's got much bigger plans than this.
Based on what I've heard from my French friends, there is a lot of unaddressed racism and sexism in France. Much of it ties back to their fairly unacknowledged colonialist past.

This makes addressing terrorism much more difficult and complex. It's difficult to work to prevent terrorist attacks from Islamic groups without also inadvertently fanning the flames of the already severe racism... which would, in turn, push more people towards extremism.
We should be able to tackle Islamism without making it racial. After all, Islamists don't care what race they are (or they're not supposed to). France's 2020 Jihadists range from French converts to Sudanese refugees.

Jan 2020 Villejuif Stabbing Nathan Chiasson (France)
Jan 2020 Metz Attempted Stabbing Not Reported (Not Reported)
Feb 2020 Dieuze Stabbing Mattias R. (France)
Apr 2020 Romans-sur-Isère Stabbing Abdallah Ahmed-Osman (Sudan)
Apr 2020 Paris Ramming Youssef T. (France)
May 2020 Tolouse Stabbing Not Reported (Sudan)
Sep 2020 Paris Stabbing Not Reported (Pakistan)
Oct 2020 Paris Beheading Abdoullakh Abouyedovich Anzorov (Chechnya)
Oct 2020 Nice Beheading Brahim Aouissaoui (Tunisia)
I suppose it's sort of like tackling gang violence in the USA without making it overtly racial: extremely touchy regardless.

I suppose the point of this thread was some first amendment freedom of religion argument. Rabid atheist that I am my general view is that hiding behind religious freedom when the specific cause of the violence is the religious teaching of those mosques is weird. Surely if a specific militia was talking about overthrowing the government it would be right to shut down that militia regardless of the constitutional implications of shutting down any other militia. "you can't infringe on my belief that I should be allowed to murder you" doesn't hold for Son of Sam any more than Youssef the beheader.
My concern is whether the French government's attempts to combat violence are overstepping the bounds of human rights and perhaps bleeding into religious or cultural persecution. For example, "Parents face jail for home-schooling in French curbs on Islamic extremism":
From The Daily Mail:
The bill, unveiled yesterday, will make it a crime to teach children at home, in an attempt to prevent them from falling under the influence of religious radicals. More than 50,000 children are currently home-schooled.
A blanket ban on all homeschooling for the express purpose of suppressing certain extremist teachings seem wildly nonspecific and disproportionate to me.

Besides the issue of possible government overreach and direct human rights violations, I think there is, as others have noted, a real risk of backlash from the Muslim community leading to more rather than less extremism and of increased Islamophobia/xenophobia among the populace.

In 2001, there was a notable Islamic attack on US soil. Besides the two ensuing wars, the United States has still not recovered all the personal freedoms and privacy protections we gave up in the aftermath.
Whether a bill being unveiled means it will pass has yet to be seen. I can see their point with homeschooling, I think for every well-meaning parent who believes their child will get a better shot learning at home, there are a lot of students who forego social competence for the sake of upholding weird beliefs their parents hold, but homeschooling is not the topic at hand.

I think talking about a Muslim backlash seems like it's vaguely missing the point. A teacher was beheaded for discussing the prophet Muhammed in a secular school. Talking about a backlash is bizarre when there are already violent attacks on the basis of religion, it's not a backlash. If the Muslim community at large doesn't see the problem with radical mosques then there's a bigger problem than just the radical mosques in France.
I agree that banning home-schooling to curb Islamism is not only disproportionate, it's a non sequitur. What is the point of banning home-schooling in France, when most Jihadists aren't schooled in France?

If home-schooling is the problem, it isn't French home-schooling. If home-schooling is the problem, then France needs to ban home-schooling in Sudan, Pakistan, Tunisia and Chechnya, which obviously it can't do.
If some of the terrorists are French converts, it stands to reason that some of them might have learned it from their parents while being home-schooled in France, right?
A convert changes religion from the one they were raised in. A Muslim convert's parents aren't Muslim, so wouldn't raise them Muslim. If anything, I'd say home-schooled children are probably less likely to convert.

Assuming it's his real birth-name, the Paris rammer Youssef T. is the only French-born perpetrator from the last year who sounds like he probably had Muslim parents, who may or may not have home-schooled him.

I can't support banning home-schooling in France to stop Islamist attacks when correlation hasn't even been demonstrated (let alone causation). This sounds like an excuse from those who want to ban it anyway.
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