ForumTouchy Subjects ► Are there any conservatives here anymore?
Ditto. Can't really argue with you there because you're right on all accounts. I do find myself alienated from a lot of conservative people because of stuff like this. Its like there's two parties in America, but there isn't a party for me.

I also have reason to believe that a lot of conservative people hate women candidates and pretend its for some other reason besides that they're women. Same for ethnicities that aren't white. Its a huge problem. I don't wanna sound too crazy or like a conspiracy theorist, but I believe there's a lot of sub conscious bias and internalized misogyny and racism among conservative people which is a huge reason why I don't really go to political meetings or hangout with a lot of conservative people.

I also have reason to believe that a lot of conservative people hate women candidates and pretend its for some other reason besides that they're women. Same for ethnicities that aren't white. Its a huge problem. I don't wanna sound too crazy or like a conspiracy theorist, but I believe there's a lot of sub conscious bias and internalized misogyny and racism among conservative people which is a huge reason why I don't really go to political meetings or hangout with a lot of conservative people.

That's hardly a secret, a lot of gay/black/trans/women in conservative circles wind up learning the hard way that bigotry isn't as dead as they assumed from "principled economic and family values" conservatives.
Any conservative who says they are in favor of "family values" usually means they are in favor of a protestant theocracy in government and they usually view the Bible as superior to the constitution.

At least, that's been my experience and I have a pretty vast experience with conservatives.

I could give a damn about family values, get me that family planning. Even though I consider myself a conservative, I am opposed to religious conservatism and people trying to legislate the Bible into law. I've even voted for a couple pretty liberal candidates in my area (before my voting rights were temporarily rescinded, of course) because their conservative opponent was preaching how they needed to use the Bible to inspire our laws.

Using the Bible as a way to legislate is my least favorite thing any politician can do policy wise and will always get a no vote from me.
Grayseff said:
To put it simply: if the party or candidate you vote for is anti LGBTQ+ or targets minorities with near-surgical precision it is extremely difficult to argue that you don't support racism and homophobia because the net result of your political opinion is to harm minorities.
I find this argument extremely unfair when we're talking about a two-party political system. People have many political priorities, but when it comes time to vote they have to distill them down to (in most cases) a binary choice. If you want to argue that someone ought to hold particular priorities lower or higher, fine, but it's not right to claim someone necessarily supports every policy the person they voted for supports. I voted for Biden; doesn't suddenly make me pro-choice.

Also no offense, but just reading the last few comments should probably help people understand why there aren't many/any outspoken conservatives here. 😛 It's a been a liberal echochamber for a while now. (Not that that's anyone's fault or even totally a bad thing, just the nature of how internet fora work.)
Well, it has been true for my experience. There are a lot of conservative people who seem to be racist, but don't consciously uphold racist values in their conscious mind. And there are a lot of conservative people who have a God First - Country Second mentality.

And its true, most conservatives are Christians, mainly protestants, and however friendly they are they always eventually view my opinions as second class because they have a belief that all wisdom and truth comes from a foundation of belief in their God.

But this is a thread about conservatives which is why I'm talking about conservatives like me. One of the major reasons I identify as conservative is the constant threat of racism and sexism from the Left.

Over the last decade I've been betrayed, bamboozled, and smackledorfed repeatedly by people going out of their way to harm me solely because I'm white and a male. I learned through way too much trial and error that my race and sex precludes me from close association with the political left.

They will always, and I am clear about always, seek to harm me because of my race and sex. No group that is predominately leftist has ever kept me for long before making an issue out of my race and sex.

The worst part is they say its not racist or sexist because of this whole convoluted shared mentality that its impossible to be racist or sexist toward whites or men. Apparently those isms have been conveniently redefined to incorporate an overly complicated prerequisite for prejudice that includes the power to act on the prejudice.

Tl;dr this isn't a pity party, I have many friends both left and right, but I don't belong to any cohesive groups or people on the right or the left because common prejudices keep me out from being part of a larger more popular group. I identify as a conservative because I overwhelmingly have conservative values, but I have just enough liberal values that it alienates me from many conservative groups in America.
I've met in person a total of two observably racist conservatives that I can remember, which I think means I'm quite sheltered in that regard. I like to think that unconscious bias aside, most people understand intellectually that treating people poorly because of their race is stupid and evil, so I'm still hopeful racial dialogue will improve.

I would that say that God-first, country-second is the only reasonable perspective if you believe in and worship the Christian God, but that worldview doesn't necessitate support for theocracy or preclude belief in separation of church and state. But admittedly there is an unfortunate tendency among American Evangelicals these days to conflate religion and politics.
Yeah, that's why I make a point of naming you when I talk about these evangelicals because people like you and Christians like you I don't have a problem with.

If you had to live and grow up with rural Christianity, I think there's a good chance even if you remained a Christian you would probably be just as wary as some of these guys as I am.

Jokes aside I agree with the bias bit which is why I was careful to specify subconscious bias and I do believe there is widespread subconscious bias among conservatives who consciously reject and are repelled by out and out racism and sexism.

This is another reason I prefer to align myself with conservatism over liberalism. Conservatives are generally racist and sexist by accident. The liberals in my experience who are racist and sexist toward my race and my gender usually do it consciously and on purposely and I do believe conscious prejudice is worse than subconscious prejudice.
I dunno, I grew up in Sussex County, Delaware. I went to church at Bayshore Community Church in Gumboro, which looks like this. I spent the first 18 years of my life around rural evangelical Christians and almost never encountered outspoken racism. I disagree with them about homosexuality and evolution, but otherwise I think they've got their heads on straight.

There's definitely a growing segment of outspoken racially identitarian left-wingers, but I still think they're a relatively small minority of the political left. And even though I think they're wrong, I at least appreciate that they mostly seem to have noble motives, viz. helping historically oppressed people. (I don't really know what my point is, just thinking out loud.)
Yeah, outspoken racists are shunned in my area by the rural evangelicals. I think its because Idaho is more diverse than Montana where I encountered most of the outspoken white racists. People straight up approached me all the time if I was "one of them" to which I was like, no dude. Most extreme example was I started to explain to one stranger on the street who approached me why I wasn't racist, and he got uncomfortable and started pawing at his gun.

That was the end of that conversation.

Racism against whites was harshest when I lived in Olympia Washington and tried to be a part of the Evergreen college communities. I encountered it first when I went to a bike shop and there was an entire day where there was no whites allowed posted to the door. That ended up being a good thing for me because I had to learn how to fix my bike myself since I wasn't allowed at the bike shop on campus.

and people were chanting kill the white man, and then later after I left they organized an entire protest on campus where they went into the impoverished white communities and attacked people and destroyed property. It was crazy.

The weirdest, worst racism I experienced directed at me was actually by other white people with internalized racism who were ashamed to be white and directed that hatred toward other white people around them. Its very self destructive and cannabalistic.

Its a relatively newer trend for white men, but I think women have experienced this for longer with women who bash other women and have internalized misogyny.

Outside of extreme environments though, and where I currently live, outspoken racism is almost non existent. Sandpoint is a very diverse town with lots of different races and political beliefs and our city council has a lot of diverse representation across race and gender. The evangelicals here shun racism.

We have a very special hatred of racism in North Idaho because national news always picks up the stories of the handful of white supremacists that act out and public perception of our area is very racist because of sensational news stories.
I think it's very easy to miss racism that isn't outspoken if you are not the target of it. This is especially true if your area is not very diverse, which means there are fewer opportunities to actually act in racist ways.
I have a very VERY hard time believing you now. I have lived and grown up in Washington all my life (Marysville), I went to Everett Community College and the University of Washington. Absolutely never did I experience anything what you are saying. if anything I saw tons more racism from white people than anything else, especially towards the Asian and Native American students. And don't even get me started on the religious wackos with the microphones on campus. Never once did I see a "no whites" sticker, and never once did I feel like there were any racist attacks towards white people like myself. The only time that white people were brought up was when it was about privilege or when talking about the fragile as hell white racists that think they are the victims of oppression when they themselves are the actual oppressors (ex: Twitter is cancelling me... all because I can't say all black people are criminals). A common conservative tactic is to lie and spew out propaganda whole just skirting that fine line that makes you seem like a victim, while having your goal be to spread lies, racism, and hate, and I have a strong feeling that is what you are trying to do here. If anyone doesn't understand, check out "the alt-right playbook" as it details this tactic extremely well.
Evergreen State College in Washington was in the headlines in 2017-2018 for having a no whites day.
"A common conservative tactic is to lie and spew out propaganda whole just skirting that fine line that makes you seem like a victim, while having your goal be to spread lies, racism, and hate, and I have a strong feeling that is what you are trying to do here. If anyone doesn't understand, check out "the alt-right playbook" as it details this tactic extremely well."

Yep, you got me. My issues with racism in the police force, my issues with white people not examining their privilege, my issues with women being treated badly by sexists in the work force, my anger at brown Americans being treated as second class citizens... Not to mention my issues with Christianity and my ongoing crusade against racism and discrimination... It was all a smoke screen for my secret Nazism all along! /satire

Yeah, this is big brain time.

Jokes aside, Unicorns isn't the first person to accuse me of being a liar when I share my experiences and say that hatred is a human condition and not a political condition.
If you share a common cause -- in opposition to the stated aims of conservative politicians, talking heads and think tanks -- with liberals on so many issues then why are you a conservative?
Freedom. I share causes with wanting to confront and end prejudices, but I disagree with the majority of the tactics.

Free speech is important to me and its become a conservative value. Gun rights and the second amendment are important to me and that has been a conservative value for awhile.

I don't want the state to take care of me, I want the state to allow for conditions where I can work and stand on my own two feet.

None of that changes the fact that I would like to educate white men about privilege, but I've got my own way of doing it and it doesn't come from a place of shame or guilt for circumstances out of my control long before I was born into the system.

Free speech is the most important value above all to me. Freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of assembly, etc. any scent or whiffs to restrict these freedoms for the greater good is cause for alarm for me and for that reason alone among others I identify as conservative.

Edit: Also, there are many people like Unicorns that shun me and exclude me from progressive circles all the time so I just don't bother trying to fit in anymore. Progressives do not tolerate dissent as well as conservatives do, generally.

My conservative friends disagree with me on many things, but they have yet to try to excommunicate me from their social circles. They are also more likely to talk about it to my face than they are to stab me in the back as has been my experience in progressive settings.

This toleration for disagreement and individual opinion by itself makes me also lean toward conservatism.
I've seen very few conservative spaces that allow for dissent so I find it ironic, but fair.
There was the red pill which were essentially actual dirtbags, many Nazis, white supremacists, gross misogynists, etc. and they allowed for NO dissent and NO free speech because they were trying, successfully, to create an indoctrination echo chamber to brainwash people in to create despicable racism and sexism amongst impressionable young boys, mostly white, although I did meet a brown guy who was taken in by them.
Most conservative specific platforms, including radio and TV and subreddits absolutely censor dissenting opinions. Free speech isn't a conservative value.

There are overweight white people on both sides of the political spectrum who have tried to censor everything in a moral panic, neither side champions free speech above the other.
Just call yourself an independent and then you don't have to explain or justify any of this. You're allowed to think whatever you want and you don't have to worry about cramming your square (or triangular) opinions into one of two round holes.

Economically I'm quite left-wing, I'm usually on-board when the left talks about helping poor people. But I'm old school left. The modern left (by which I mean liberals) loses my interest when it seemingly deplores too many white people in one place, and thinks Western countries should become kind of global zones where there's no main identity, but they're happy for Eastern countries to have a main identity. Like if the USA needs more mosques, does the UAE need more churches? I don't agree with the way liberals tear strips off Christianity left, right and centre, but holding other religions to the same standard makes you a bad person.

Conservative arguments about the Bible mean nothing to me, because I don't care about the Bible, at least not in terms of social policy. I'm pretty liberal on LGBT issues. I'll call them their preferred pronoun within reason, no skin off my nose. I might forget at first but it's not out of malice. And I couldn't care less what bathroom they use. Abortion should be allowed (and is, so stop going on about it like it's not). Law and Order my tendency is to go easy on victimless crimes, marijuana should be legal. But once you badly hurt, rape or murder someone, I don't care if you grew up poor, you made a decision, and you're still a threat to society, and your victims still deserve justice.

Should I be calling myself a liberal or a conservative or neither? I think neither would cause me less stress.
Yea to be honest a lot of this thread is "I'm a conservative and I am sick of liberals assuming I think conservative things!"
Perhaps a better question would be "are there any non-liberals".
I think Twocans might have more people to the left of liberals than to the right.
We also skew young and well educated (which skews liberal), and disproportionately have people with mental health issues, people who've been in bad labour and living situations and LGBTQ members, all of which lean heavily left, so it's hardly surprising.
Makes me wonder if the kind of person that comes across this site is inherently more likely to be left-wing.
The premise of the thread is that there were conservatives here once upon a time.
Forum > Touchy Subjects > Are there any conservatives here anymore?