ForumTouchy Subjects ► Body Shaming
Making fun of small penises is not a form of body shaming to care about unless you’re actually thinking poorly of someone’s character because of a small dick. I don’t think badly of your character no matter how small your dick is, mister deuces. Here’s a body shaming thread for you to go wild with.
  
Hey buddy! Yes, it is body shaming people. You don't get to dictate the terms of reality. You're attaching a body part to a negative personal quality, and castigating people along phenotype. Just don't do it if you care about body shaming. If you don't care about body shaming, just say so.
  
Nah, it’s not and I’m not gonna argue it because I don’t need to because anyone can see when someone’s actually attaching something negative to the shape of a body part and when they’re making a haha. Plus you’re not that entertaining.
  
Okay, roll over like a bitch and give up then, I don't care. I'm not here to entertain you. I'm here to challenge your toxic and shitty ideas.

It is body shaming people. You're making people feel shame about their body. Just because some people might be able to blow off that shame and laugh with you doesn't mean they weren't shamed. Fat jokes can be funny too. Are they not body shaming if it's funny?

You keep returning to me, as though I was somehow offended. I enjoy it myself. It's pleasurable for me. But I have known many people that are deeply distressed by it. I will absolutely speak up on their behalf. The fact that you tried to *shame me* really underscores how YOU ARE BODY SHAMING PEOPLE ALONG THESE LINES.

Society has told you that it's acceptable, but does that make it right? Does that make it not body shaming?

No. It doesn't. Society is pretty okay with speeding, but speeding is still fucked up and dangerous.
  
I'm unilaterally unlocking this thread because I think it's an interesting and kinda important topic, and I'm interested in exchanging opinions. Please don't make me regret it. Formal warning: anyone unable to discuss a touchy subject without resorting to personal attacks, please refrain from posting in Touchy Subjects.

</mod hat>

IMO using a physical trait like having a "tiny dick" as an insult is definitely a form of body shaming.
  
Ok, yes, it is body shaming. Is it a form of it that I think deserves any sort of attention or care? No. It's a penis. Is it bigotry? A far cry from it.
  
@antimony what types of body shaming do deserve attention and care and why?
  
Frankly I think the idea of "body shaming" is dumb because it misses the point. Let's take fat shaming for example. Let's say someone called you fat and it hurt your feelings. Get over it. Everyone gets their feelings hurt. Let's say someone doesn't hire you because you're fat. Find an attorney to file a lawsuit because obesity is a disability. Don't wanna do that? Sucks a lot, but get over it if you're not willing to actually do something. Does it matter that they didn't hire you because you're fat? No, what matters is they didn't hire you when you were perfectly capable of doing the job and they didn't like you because you had a disability. Some people are more predisposed to being overweight than others, genetically or psychologically (even certain non genetic medical conditions can make you predisposed to it). Let's take someone who's overweight because of psychological reasons. They eat way more than they should almost to the point of being like an addiction. Drug addiction is also something people can be genetically and psychologically predisposed to. Let's take someone who's addicted to prescription opioids. They take a lot of Vicodin. Both of these people have something wrong with them that at times they have no control over, but still something that can be fixed. Why make it about the body and not instead about belittling people for having a rather serious problem?
And back to dicks: is having a small dick a problem? Only if you feel like it is, which if you do, get over it, because that's something you actually can't change.
  
My thoughts on body shaming are probably quite callous. I don't like bullying and think bosses and children who make fun of people constantly are bad because the victim can't speak out: that said, there's nothing inherently worse about bullying over bodies than any other kind of bullying. I don't think fat shaming is any worse than someone judging my nicotine habit (one day I'll fix it he says after eleven years).

Judging penis size is an interesting one, the "victim" can't exactly fix that issue, but we also really don't need to hear about a stranger's dick size or fetishes in public, so eh. I don't put much thought into it.
  
If in case anyone here is ridiculous enough to interpret what I said this way, then I want to be very very clear: yes bullying is bad, yes abusing people is bad and if someone is making fun of you for being fat then they're being a huge asshole. I don't know why people think it's terrible to say that the only things you can do about every bad thing you've experience in life is to try to make it better if you can or learn to live with it if you can't.* I can't say I know what being overweight is like because I've never been overweight I've never been more than just slightly overweight. I definitely know what long term opioid addiction is like. What did I do about all the problems it caused me and the way people treated me? I got better.

*if you can't or until you can.
  
AND because I know it's possible to think this from what I said, no I'm not saying that anyone ultimately has to change their bodies or habits. Some people live normal lives being obese. Some people even live normal lives being addicted to opioids. I really can't see this as any different than any other way someone could treat another badly. We're talking about ways someone can treat another person badly, not magnitude so for the love of god don't anyone go drawing comparisons to the KKK.
  
On the other hand, being made to feel bad for how you look is a very nasty feeling. Maybe it's from a place of dysphoria, but there are many things about my body that I do not like and cannot change, and people making fun of that just leaves me feeling gross and helpless. Maybe it's not so bad when it doesn't exacerbate other mental health issues, but for me I would pick pretty much any kind of ridicule over being shamed about my body.

Just be nice to people. If someone tells you that you hurt them, it's not your in your court to argue that you didn't or that they shouldn't be hurt by what you said or did.
  
Coldfrost said:
On the other hand, being made to feel bad for how you look is a very nasty feeling. Maybe it's from a place of dysphoria, but there are many things about my body that I do not like and cannot change, and people making fun of that just leaves me feeling gross and helpless.
This is exactly what being treated like shit for being addicted to opioids feels like.
Coldfrost said:
Maybe it's not so bad when it doesn't exacerbate other mental health issues, but for me I would pick pretty much any kind of ridicule over being shamed about my body.
At this point is the negativity experienced from the ridicule to do specifically with the fact that it was the body or is it to do with the fact that it was for something that already causes intense distress?
Coldfrost said:
If someone tells you that you hurt them, it's not your in your court to argue that you didn't or that they shouldn't be hurt by what you said or did.
Let's suppose I do hurt someone that I know almost nothing about. Could you really blame me if me calling them small-dicked caused them significant distress because of XYZ things they've experienced in the past or other things that caused "you have a small dick" to be much more hurtful than I was anticipating?
Coldfrost said:
Just be nice to people.
Yes, but people say hurtful things without realizing it all the time and I think it's a good idea to be forgiving of that.
  
I'll forgive someone when they show that they've changed. As it stands I will never socially accept anybody who doesn't consider the gravity of body shaming. I know what it's like to experience it first-hand. It's absolutely ignorant to say "just get over it" and you should know that.
  
I think the comparison to addiction is some whataboutism. Is the argument that body shaming isn't a real issue because people get made fun of for other comparable things?

At this point is the negativity experienced from the ridicule to do specifically with the fact that it was the body or is it to do with the fact that it was for something that already causes intense distress?
I mean my body already causes me intense distress, so both? But people can get hangups over nearly anything. Insult someone about their nose once and it's easy to ignore. Have people comment on your nose your entire life and it's hard to not make something out of it.

Could you really blame me if me calling them small-dicked caused them significant distress because of XYZ things they've experienced in the past or other things that caused "you have a small dick" to be much more hurtful than I was anticipating?
Dick jokes aside, making fun of people for how they look is very widespread and has been for a very long time. That's why the term 'body shaming' exists, because it's so prevalent that it gets its own word and Wikipedia article. Eating disorders and body dysmorphia partially come from a culture being critical and judging people on their weight. There are other underlying mental health issues, sure, but the fact that they're expressed so often by an obsession with becoming skinny says something.

I agree, the dick thing is a little... redickulous (*studio laughter*). But if the solution to body shaming is 'don't care about what other people think', I'm just saying it's not always so easy.
  
What Frost said. You can't just... not feel offended. You don't get to ever control your emotions. If you feel offended, it's not on purpose. Rarely do people voluntarily change their mood to purposely feel bad.
  
*Yes, but people say hurtful things without realizing it all the time and I think it's a good idea to be forgiving of that.*


Refusing to acknowledge that you've done something isn't a great way to have someone 'be forgiving' of you saying or doing something.

We're talking about ways someone can treat another person badly, not magnitude so for the love of god don't anyone go drawing comparisons to the KKK


I am not responsible for your imagination. I did not 'draw comparisons to the KKK'. I didn't say "You're acting like a clasman"! I used an extreme example to illustrate that having a point doesn't excuse your behavior while making it. I outright said that afterwards. *You're still stuck on what you imagined I meant based on what I said*. Is there any hope for a reasonable discussion if you're unwilling to set down your assumptions? If you're unwilling to let someone tell you what they meant, you're just talking to yourself.

Grayseff said:
but we also really don't need to hear about a stranger's dick size or fetishes in public, so eh.


This isn't public. It's the touchy subjects portion of a forum. I only brought any of that up to communicate, no, it's really not about me. This isn't something I am taking personal offense to, and it's not some slight that I am personally motivated to address because I felt offended. It's not born out of some insecurity of mine, which is very specifically the accusation that was levied against me. I suppose it might have something to do with me being pan, and having encountered people with those insecurities, but even then, I'm not operating out of a personal motivation.

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Anyone that considers themselves a feminist should take issue with this kind of body shaming. It serves the old gender norms. Beyond this, it serves an outmoded and outdated perception of what coital relations are. P in V is not 'sex'. P in V is one type of sex. Attaching qualities of P to the outcome of X serves to continue this terrible misconception. As a pan person with his fair share of ex-lovers all over the spectrum of gender, I have personally experienced bad sex that was the result of this misconception.

I think it's fair to point things out. I also think that anyone that has ever dealt with me understands that I am an extreme and abrasive person that will say shit that rubs you the wrong way. Don't let *me* get to you, I mean, comeon. I mean well. If I annoy you, say so, own up to your own shit, and I'll own up to mine. I'm reasonable. I'm just a grumpy veteran with a herniated disc and barely treated mental illness. It was never gonna be chill to deal with me. :p
  
Coldfrost said:
Is the argument that body shaming isn't a real issue because people get made fun of for other comparable things?
The argument is that if something bad is happening, no matter what it is, then the only options you have are to change the situation or deal with it until you can. Find me a situation where that doesn’t apply. I did not say that this isn’t a real issue. I did not say that making people feel like shit isn’t bad. If you read through what I said again, I think you’ll find that I was trying to say that lumping things like mild teasing and then actual abuse and bullying under the same descriptor is misleading. And also that you and everyone else in the world say things that make people feel horrible without realizing it, sometimes while realizing it, and will continue to do so for the rest of your lives so you should remember that before saying someone else is near evil because they made fun of a person’s body. That just like when someone made fun of your body and that was the thousandth time someone did that to you in your life, you have also been the thousandth person to have said something different that affected someone in the same way.
  
I said again, I think you’ll find that I was trying to say that lumping things like mild teasing and then actual abuse and bullying under the same descriptor is misleading.


Symbols matter. If you're choosing to use a symbol that is used for actual abuse and bullying for 'mild teasing', then you are the party at fault if someone confuses your motivations. I'm only using the Swastika because it's a symbol with multiple meanings to multiple groups. If you used that symbol with a different intent, you'd still be the party responsible if you were mistaken by someone thinking you're a Nazi. Our language can evoke symbolism. Using 'little dick' jokes evokes a symbol. It evokes the entire concept, and yes, it's on you if someone else takes your mild teasing as actual bullying and abuse. To be clear, I'm not calling you a Nazi. Nor did I take your original post's body shaming to be particularly bullying and abusive, not until *after* when you actually *did* try to bully me along those lines. Because, yeah buddy, you really did completely dismiss my input and then attempt to ridicule me as 'insecure' about something sooooooooo :P
  
“But if the solution to body shaming is 'don't care about what other people think', I'm just saying it's not always so easy.” It’s not, and I know that very well. But that’s still all you can do.
  
There are certainly ways to avoid people associating your 'mild teasing' with actual abuse - modify your mild teasing to be more in line with topics that people haven't been bullied or abused about. Confine teasing that violates those constraints to 1 on 1 interaction with people that you have confirmed don't respond negatively to it. There are a host of actions that one can engage in to be more mindful of others, and none of them involve burying your head in the sand.
  
“ topics that people haven't been bullied or abused about ” and how would I know what those things are? Not everyone has had the same experiences. Also Do you mean to tell me that not once have you slipped up and teased someone about something they’ve been shit on for their whole lives without realizing it?
  
I know I have done that - hit buttons I didn't know existed. I apologized and tried to be more sensitive moving forward, not only with them, but with others. I acted like an ass in these threads, and here, I'll apologize for that. Sorry. I'll try harder to be less 'me' on the forums. I get used to everyone sort of accepting that what seems like hostility is just me being in pain, and I forget that it's completely delusional to expect that kind of understanding on the internet without putting the work in to disclaim it.
  
I know I have. I apologized and tried to be more sensitive moving forward, not only with them, but with others. I acted like an ass in these threads, and here, I'll apologize for that. Sorry. I'll try harder to be less 'me' on the forums. I get used to everyone sort of accepting that what seems like hostility is just me being in pain, and I forget that it's completely delusional to expect that kind of understanding on the internet without putting the work in to disclaim it.
Okay so yeah, you have. And you apologized so clearly you wanted to be forgiven. And it seems now that me interpreting you as acting like a dick was just me not understanding you. And you said you changed yourself to be more sensitive with them and others but you can try that but you won’t ever not make the same mistake again. You’re a person, you’re doomed to do it again some day. Wouldn’t it have been much better if I had thought to myself “Alright, I’ve done things along those lines before, I won’t hold it against this person”? Obviously it would have.
  
One thing to bring up is that body-shaming (like many other insults) doesn't just affect the target of your vitriol, but also anyone listening who happens to share those characteristics.

For one example, I few years ago I had a relative who was very upset by something Ann Coulter did. They made a big point to talk about how ugly and "mannish" she looked - almost more than about whatever she said that pissed them off. That relative has always been polite to me, but it's hard not to wonder if they also hold my appearance against me (being a trans woman, and certainly looking more mannish than most cis women).

Making fun of Trump for having a small dick or for being fat has the side effect of communicating "these things are bad, and people with these characteristics deserve our ridicule."
  
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