ForumTouchy Subjects ► US getting the fuck outta Afghanistan
So just how stupid should the US feel for pulling out (lol) and the current situation in Afghanistan?
  
Pretty dumb, considering how much money was spent and how quickly it all went in the shitter.

As usual with our country, good intentions but terrible execution. (Ignoring the many times there were bad intentions with bad execution as well)
  
Kylljoy said:
(Ignoring the many times there were bad intentions with bad execution as well)
Contras? I’ve never heard of contras. Must be some hippy bullshit.

But yeah
>US pulls out of Afghanistan
A week or two later
>Taliban advances through Afghanistan
Who could have seen that coming?
  
I wonder if things would suck a whole lot less, if the US minded its own business more often.
  
If you read what their four year terror campaign and five year rule were like, you wouldn't regret the US involvement as much. The Taliban are monsters.
  
Oh yeah they are. I get physically uncomfortable reading about them and feel a weird secondhand fear. On a related note: I wish we had done just a little bit more in Syria.
  
Syria/Iraq is a whoooole 'nother set of issues. I don't know, I've never liked the "we never should have been there" crowd because of just how sick the Taliban are.
  
"Damned if you do, damned if you don't"

So, might as well be damned and stop tossing money and bodies at the problem. Twice now the Afghani army that we've trained has turned tail and ran. Enough is enough. They have proven that they don't want the help, so we need to stop and let it be. Yes, it's scary, but we can only hope that the Afghani people got the message of what human rights looks like and they turn on the Taliban if they start their shit again.
  
It’s the taliban. They’re gonna start their shit again. Apparently they want all foreign evacuation efforts done by the 31st so I guess we’ll start hearing about some awful things happening soon.
  
Just a question, since I don't like to watch the news, why did we leave?
  
Because it had been going on for a really long time, we spent shit tons of money on it, lost a lot of lives during it, our own army did some fucked up things over there, it was a war that was almost retribution for 9/11, the fighting seemed like it came to an end, we stuck around sort of just to maintain peace, some afghan citizens were uncomfortable with us there.

That's the short brain damaged version.
  
But why would we rather the Taliban rule?

Ya know, we kinda fought a second world war about what they're doing right now...
  
100 billion dollars a year is why we're leaving. Been there since before you were both.
  
But we did spend 4.1 trillion in the second world war...

Fighting what they're doing right now...
  
They don't have anything to do w each other. That's like saying w paid $4 for this burger we ate but don't want to pay another $2 to eat this turd.
  
In 2001 Al Qaeda flew a few planes into the twin towers and the pentagon. The Taliban, a ruthless gang of dickholes the US armed in the 1980's had harboured and trained Al Qaeda terrorists, so the US invaded and basically immediately defeated the Taliban.

The US-led, UN backed rebuild plan, mostly the plan to build the ring-road through Afghanistan to improve the economic, social and military presence stopped dead in its tracks in 2003 when funding was slashed in order to pay for the invasion of Iraq. Funding for the rebuild plan never increased and the ring road was constantly highjacked by Taliban insurgents, between that and the rampant corruption in the Afghan government things didn't get better from 2003-present.

This understandably pissed off Americans who were spending tax dollars on Afghanistan, so a certain President pledged to completely withdraw. This president also freed the leader of the Taliban months before the drawdown, and began a drawdown that was essentially in progress and too hard to stop. The current president delayed it, but didn't stop it.

The Afghan government essentially surrendered. An Afghan commando tweeted that they were ordered to stand down and disarm hours before the Taliban arrived.

For reference as to why Afghanistan was prepared to surrender, the Taliban in the 90's quite literally razed cities, killing everyone who refused to leave and burning them completely to the ground. They use torture and rape as weapons in conquest.
  
They don't have anything to do w each other. That's like saying w paid $4 for this burger we at but don't want to pay another $2 to eat this turd.

Hitler: Murders believers in religion
  • Shut down other opinions
  • Will kill you if you don't do what you're told
  • Burns cities to the ground
  • etc
Taliban: Murders believers in religion
  • Shut down other opinions
  • Will kill you if you don't do what you're told
  • Burns cities to the ground
  • etc

I'm not saying they're the same, it's just we did a lot for those reasons and don't seem to be willing to do it again... or at least our president isn't...
  
The trouble: No one wanted to pay for the rebuild the way the Marshall Plan rebuilt Europe. Paying for missiles is more palatable than paying for Afghanistan's infrastructure.

You could spend 1000 years with troops on the ground, but if you won't improve Afghan lives you'll still be fighting.
  
It makes me sick when money is worth more than lives
  
Two things:
1) The US's own infrastructure is crumbling and paying for it is unpopular among one of the two major parties, let alone paying for Afghanistan's.
2) Political sensitivity is not the US's forte. For the best source on why ISIS exists and Iraq failed, read The Unravelling by Emma Sky.
  
Samsung23 said:
They don't have anything to do w each other. That's like saying w paid $4 for this burger we at but don't want to pay another $2 to eat this turd.

Hitler: Murders believers in religion
  • Shut down other opinions
  • Will kill you if you don't do what you're told
  • Burns cities to the ground
  • etc
Taliban: Murders believers in religion
  • Shut down other opinions
  • Will kill you if you don't do what you're told
  • Burns cities to the ground
  • etc

I'm not saying they're the same, it's just we did a lot for those reasons and don't seem to be willing to do it again... or at least our president isn't...


The huge, enormous difference is Germany had the resources, men, and will to expand and conquer other nations. The Taliban does not. The U.S. didn't even enter the war until attacked by Japan.
  
Samsung23 said:
Hitler: Murders believers in religion
  • Shut down other opinions
  • Will kill you if you don't do what you're told
  • Burns cities to the ground
  • etc

Yeah, SDB already basically said it, but the US had no idea what Hitler was doing re "The Final Solution" when we got into the war. We knew about the Nuremburg Laws and the Jews being treated as second-class citizens, but we didn't really see it as a reason to get involved. The US (historically speaking) has never given a shit about another country unless it indirectly threatened them as well.

See : Monroe Doctrine, Cold War, Proxy Wars, Korean War, Vietnam War, The Gulf War, etc.

The reason we fought the Nazis was because Japan attacked us totally unprovoked anyone who says the Japanese declaration of war was legitimate is a troll. In fact, we were more interested in Nazi research than actually persecuting Nazis, to the point where we actively let them go unprosecuted on a few conditions
  
Like NASA.
  
What can I say, man? We let the Nazis help build Disneyland for pete's sake.
  
Samsung23 said:
But why would we rather the Taliban rule?
I don’t think anyone but the taliban wants the taliban to rule Afghanistan.
  
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