ForumTouchy Subjects ► NNN, contemporary masculinity, semen retention, and the alt right
if your testosterone levels drop at the end of each week they'll send people to your house to beat you up
  
4chan, 8chan, 16chan, whatever other chans there are nowadays, are a specific internet-addled teenage boy subculture which is more about trolling, memes and porn. I think it's toxic (especially for its participants) but they shouldn't be taken as representing the alt-right in general (which in turn shouldn't be taken as representing nationalism in general). Although I heard they did one good thing, and that was identify and report a kid who was abusing his cat on Youtube, so fair play to them.

There are lots of observances, whether religious or secular, ancient or modern, that encourage us to abstain from something for a period of time. If you get annoyed by people abstaining from ejaculating, do you get annoyed by people abstaining from eating in the day (Ramadan), abstaining from alcohol (Dry January), abstaining from consumerism (Buy Nothing Day) or abstaining from animal products (Veganuary)? Maybe Dry January and Veganuary have more provable health benefits, but I feel like we're not really talking about semen retention simply out of a concern about unproven health benefits, but rather out of a cultural objection.
  
I'm just commenting to mention that I like this thread title
  
With the exception of Ramadan, all of those days are abstaining from something harmful, which masturbation isn't.
  
What they all have in common is abstaining from something enjoyable. Eating - it's awesome, alcohol - it's awesome, bacon - it's awesome, buying stuff - it's awesome if you can afford it and don't need it. Jacking off's awesome if you don't have cigarette burns on your dick. I really fail to understand how there's anything even remotely sinister in horny dudes not jacking off for a month.
  
Because circling back to the contemporary part, it's dudes saying it'll make you more manly.
  
A small group of dudes who use image boards and then some stupid congressman. And that’s bad how?
  
I don't know. Not my post.
  
I don't know. It feels like a growing mindset, and I'm not sure of the ways in which it might be dangerous, but I have a feeling. And I'm usually right about things like this.
  
What about it feels dangerous?
  
Feels incely to me. And they suck.
  
No Nut November feels like a silly thing when normal people do it, but more power to 'em.

When people who have incel tendencies, RedPill folks, or MRA types do it, then I start to side-eye.

And quite a lot of the people who do it are those types.

It's sorta like people really into Norse history stuff. It's not a thing that is inherently white supremacist, but enough white supremacists are really into it that it's worth just kinda double checking if someone expresses that they're ready into it. There's a good chance they'll be totally fine, normal, good people. But there are enough bad actors there such that the follow up to check in on them is worth doing.
  
"please sire, we cannot afford to give you any more crops, my family, they are starving"
  
Because circling back to the contemporary part, it's dudes saying it'll make you more manly.
Now we're getting somewhere. People aren't objecting to semen retention because it's a pseudoscience - there are lots of pseudosciences. I have a family member who believes in aromatherapy and crystals. People are objecting to it because they fundamentally object to men not thinking masculinity is bad.
Feels incely to me. And they suck.
Even if semen retention and celibacy are the same thing (they're not), surely it's volcel rather than incel.
  
I think that for the specific groups being described here, the notion of "volcel" is a lot like "you can't fire me, I QUIT!"

Other than the folks doing NNN for shits n giggles that is.
  
Yeah. I'm not talking about incels literally. I'm talking about the women hating losers all over the internet. The "Woman only care about looks and money" type crowd.
  
Millpond said:
People are objecting to it because they fundamentally object to men not thinking masculinity is bad.

People are objecting to it because the Venn diagram of people who're into it and people who think a number of very dangerous things ("X groups aren't people", essentially) is wide.

Although a number of stereotypically 'masculine' traits are also just genuinely bad traits. Ditto 'feminine' traits. Highly (stereotypically) gendered traits are often trash.
  
I'm sympathetic to volcel men who face stigma from people who are comfortable with single women, but think single men are suspicious. Like if he wants a girlfriend but can't get one then he's a loser, and if he doesn't want one then he hates women, so he can't win.

I'm sympathetic to incel men if they're literally just having trouble getting a girlfriend but they're not an arsehole. Especially if there's something physical they can't change.

I'm not sympathetic to incel men who are toxic and sit around blaming women for the fact they're toxic. If you're having trouble getting a girlfriend (and you want one), joining an Incel community is not going to get you one. It's going to make it worse, not better.
  
Millpond said:
I'm sympathetic to volcel men who face stigma from people who are comfortable with single women, but think single men are suspicious. Like if he wants a girlfriend but can't get one then he's a loser, and if he doesn't want one then he hates women, so he can't win.


Anecdotal, but I must confess I have never encountered someone who genuinely thought that way. This line of thought is highly toxic and I would sympathize with anyone who encountered it. This also just feels like such an incredibly flattening way to view relationships with other humans.
  
I'm trying to follow what exactly the consequences are. Is the fear that these groups purpose is to guise nofap as a self-improvement routine but it's actually just to bring new members in their circle?
  
I think that's the worry, yes. I also don't see anything inherently bad about not fapping. BUT any place that could be a recruiting ground to alt-right narrative is sort of a problem. The Alt-Right Playbook by Innuendo Studios probably never mentioned NNN, but it does mention the process of radicalization and how people on the fringes are always looking for ways to gradually change the worldview of those who they can share common ground. If they can prey on Redditors, 4channers, and any community where they can share common ground, the fact that they can be a part of an NNN community now to can be potentially harmful. People don't instantly start believing QAnon conspiracies. First, they believe something innocuous, like nutting makes you weak.
But, again, I don't think celibacy or not is the problem. I don't think Reddit is the problem. The alt right is the problem. I don't know what to do about it tough.
  
i thought nnn was a silly haha funne joke thing that everyone joked about
  
Literally the only thing that's getting to me about y'all's concern with NNN is that there's way worse and way more attractive ways that 'extremist' groups win people over.

"Hey, kid, you wanna stop jacking off for a whole month and be a part of the alt-right? You'll love it! Just stop jacking off!"
"But... but porn"
"Shut the fuck up you beta male f@660t stop jacking off and join the alt-right!"

Straight up, I encourage those of you who find NNN particularly concerning to look at 4chan.org/b/ and 4chan.org/pol/ several times a day for a week and you'll see exactly what I mean and probably stop being at all concerned with NNN.
  
Wait, people are concerned by this? Not just generally concerned about the people who are into it?
  
4chan.org/pol/ several times a day for a week and you'll see exactly what I mean

Plenty of /pol/ leaks into /v/ and even second hand it gives me a headache. For a multitude of reasons.
  
Forum > Touchy Subjects > NNN, contemporary masculinity, semen retention, and the alt right